Fishless Cycling

my local boots has a shelf full of the stuff - 500ml bottles, household ammonia usually nr the prescribed items counter and a full shelf loaded with ammonia

im thinking of buying in bulk and reselling on here now

Im still on my 1st bottle from 3 years ago - only cost £3 or so at the time

Mary wrote:

I use 10L buckets to change the water in my tank and usually add one kettleful of boiling water to each bucket of cold water. Some people just use mixer taps for lukewarm water but I'm extra cautious, I guess.

I see. I thought it would be more technical than that! So the water doesn't have to be exactly the same temp?

Fishfan wrote:

I turn on the cold tap, turn on the hot tap, fill a bucket and stick my finger in. If it feels the same temp as the water I took out of the tank, fine, if not I add a bit more hot/cold as needed..

That's way too technical! Isn't there an easier way?

Some people do use a thermometer to make sure the water temp is the same, but others just get a feel of the water (literally) and make the new water as near as poss to the same temperature as the old tank water

Best to make things as easy as possible

By te way, did you ever add some fish foosd to the tank to start your cycle or are you waiting?

[quote="Grampa"]

H2O wrote:

What shop you on about at the top of Easter Road then........jeeez H20, thats 20/20 optition no wonder they looked at you in a strange way...........

On the other side Gramps!

You know the asian store at the bus stop that sells everything?

I cancelled that order for the test kit so I'm gonna have to go and buy one from a real shop on Friday.

Diana wrote:

Best to make things as easy as possible

By te way, did you ever add some fish foosd to the tank to start your cycle or are you waiting?

I haven't tried that yet Diana. I did add a bit of fish food when I first set up the tank, along with some Aqua Plus and some Cycle. I also added some more Cycle last Friday coz it said so on the label.

I'm annoyed at that online pet shop. I should've just bought it from the shop when I got the tank but they didn't mention it.

I feel like I'm way behind now.

I would forget about adding any cycle stuff - it does nothing at all so tere's no point.

You dont have any ammonia or a water testing kit yet do you?

If you are fed up waiting, and have some fish food, take a handful, cut the foot off one leg of a pair of tights, shove the fish food inside and then let it dangle in the water of the tank - dont let the fish flakes just float about or it will mess up your filter.

Keep your filter and heater running, and then just leave it.

When you get your water testing kit, you never know, you might have some ammonia in your tank and you can then start adding the liquid ammonia when you get that.

Thanks Diana. I got the ammonia but didn't think I should put any in just now as I don't have a test kit yet.

Thats probably best.

I started my fishless cycle with some frozen prawns that I let decompose in some tights while I was waiting for my ammonia to come. It slowly builds up the ammonia but you dont have quite the control that you have with the liquid stuff.

It's a good test for your patience while you wait - you will need that during the fishless cycle anyway

I just want fishes now!

What are you going to get - any thoughts yet?

I remember when I was doing my fishless cycle I used to have the tank lights on all day, and spend hours rearranging all the fake plants and ornaments, then step back and admire my handiwork

Hehe! I sit and watch the plants sway.

I'm thinking of a shoal of black tetras, cardinal tetras, electric blue guppies, Siamese algae eater, speckled molly, galaxy rasbora, zebra danio, butterfly cichlid, Australian rainbowfish, western rainbowfish, pearl gourami, glass catfish, silver hatchetfish, black neon tetras.

Well, not all in a 60l tank of course! That's a few that may suit my tank but I'm not sure what is best or how many I could have at once or if they'd eat each other!

I'll be asking advice on that once I've done the fishless cycle..... in 6mths time.

Are any of those not suitable?

The gkass cats are well n truly out for a 60liter - I have 6 and they grow to quite a size and are active.

Id rule out larger cichlids although most rams should be fine (I have 4 blues in a 65liter)- certainly no rainbow fish

The algae eater - trial n error - mine attacked alot of my fish - and that was in a 185liter tank - youve been warned

Zebra danios - well, imho - no - not in a 65luter tank - they are very active fish and love to bomb around - I had mine (fire ring danios but much the same thing) in my 65liter and they were too hyper for the other fish so I put them inthe 185 - they are more than able to avoid tthe theoretical predators

Pearl gourami - nnot too sure tbh - everything seems ok - but like me - you seem to like the 'sensitive' fish and they may not dowell in a new tank.

Cherry barbs, checkered barbs, black widow tetras, maybe golden barbs (grow reasonale big tho at 4" but also stocky build) make good starter fish as do harlequin rasbora.

Galaxy rasbora are quite hardy too - but they are expensive in most shops and dont like being with fish much bigger than themselves, even a fully grown cardinal dwarfs an adult galaxy

Hope this helps

Brilliant advice, thanks Rich!

Er, you've not left me with much.

I was trying to avoid barbs as they look a lot like goldfish and I kept GF for years so wanted something different. The harlequin rasboras are nice though.

H2O wrote:

Thanks Diana. I got the ammonia but didn't think I should put any in just now as

Quote :

I don't have a test kit yet.

Jeeez Farrah...I wish you had took this up a couple of years ago........I gave all the test kits you'd ever need away when I sold up.......not to mention pumps, filters, sand, gravel, etc etc........for nixy..........

Why not just go into pets at home.....they have all the test kits you'll need....Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, P.h. etc etc. If you wait any longer, you'll be able to catch the Tram to the shop..........

Grampa wrote:

H2O wrote:

Thanks Diana. I got the ammonia but didn't think I should put any in just now as

Quote :

I don't have a test kit yet.

Jeeez Farrah...I wish you had took this up a couple of years ago........I gave all the test kits you'd ever need away when I sold up.......not to mention pumps, filters, sand, gravel, etc etc........for nixy..........

Why not just go into pets at home.....they have all the test kits you'll need....Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, P.h. etc etc. If you wait any longer, you'll be able to catch the Tram to the shop..........

Where's that Gramps?

Trams? Trams? I'll give you trams!!

Well, I got a test kit today but it only tests nitrate & nitrite. Do I need an ammonia test thingy? Also, does it make a difference if the water is soft? Does it need to be hard?

You will need this http://www.ukpetsupplies.com/Details.aspx?CatId=1323&ParentId=595&ProdId=2780

This http://www.aquariumguys.com/nitratetestkit1.html

And This http://mangrovesandmore.co.uk/tetra-tetratest-freshwater-test-p-425.html

Doesn't have to be those makes but you do need them to get started.

Pets at home


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Or try the new shop at Pilrig just next door to the Shrub Bar (you'll know where that is).........

H2O wrote:

Grampa wrote:

H2O wrote:

Thanks Diana. I got the ammonia but didn't think I should put any in just now as

Quote :

I don't have a test kit yet.

Jeeez Farrah...I wish you had took this up a couple of years ago........I gave all the test kits you'd ever need away when I sold up.......not to mention pumps, filters, sand, gravel, etc etc........for nixy..........

Why not just go into pets at home.....they have all the test kits you'll need....Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, P.h. etc etc. If you wait any longer, you'll be able to catch the Tram to the shop..........

Where's that Gramps?

Trams? Trams? I'll give you trams!!

Well, I got a test kit today but it only tests nitrate & nitrite. Do I need an ammonia test thingy? Also, does it make a difference if the water is soft? Does it need to be hard?

You need the ammonia one first of all, so get yourself out to the shops again

At the mo, dont worry about hard or soft. If you take a cup of your tap water, leave it to stand for 24hrs and then test the ph, that will give you some idea of what your water is like

BUT - dont think this is the actual reading - there are things to consider

1stly - your substrate

2ndly decor - both of these can have an effect on the pH etc of your water - for example, if you have alot of bogwood this can have a small effect, likewise, limestone and similar (sold in LFS as marine rock quite often) or shells can change pH as well as substrates and even some filyer media

of courase - if you want to change pH intentionally then great - but this is for more advanced fishkeeping

personally - I suggest finding out roughly what your tap pH is (as diana suggests) and try to keep fish that prefer the water pH your tap produces.

pH is usually not too different around the country (due to the treatment processes) but hardness can be very different and often its hardness that changes what you can n cant keep - or more specifically, breed.

As it happens -pH of your water is useful to know - as this changes how bad a certain level of ammonia is in your tank

.5ppm of ammonia can be lethal in some water - but harmless in others - to cut a long chemsitry lesson short, depending on the pH, ammonia is converted to ammonium - both will show up as the same thing on most test kits - if you can keep a zero readiong of ammonia like I do and most do - then great - but its useful to know what your 'panic' button level real is.

My fish are actually ok at 2ppm ammonia - but I have really soft acidic water - its the sort of stuff people spenmd a fortune on recreating - mine comes out the tap - boasting aside - if folk want it - i'll post a link or find the article to the ammonia/ammonium toxicity guide.

If you want to keep plants, hardness and pH are good to know for the co2 (if you go for it) but that too is more complicated and unnecessary fishy fluff (I have read a few proper scientific papers now that prove coo2 injection in aquariums under 800liters is a waste of time and money - compared to the cosrt of keeping more fish in the tank )

Well, I've been testing the water and taking some good advice from a really clever young chap that breeds fish (and plants!).

I've just tested it this morning and the ammonia seems to be at zero. The nitrate & nitrite seem to be ok too.

Does this seem right? It hasn't been three weeks yet. Do I do a water change now? How much? I'd quite like to get it done now.

Can I just clarify what you are doing?

You should be adding enough ammonia to bring the test reading up to
4-5ppm. Is this what you are doing?

You then test the water every day, adding more ammonia to keep it at
that level.

When your nitrite shoots up, you then reduce the amount of ammonia you
are adding so that you maintain an ammonia level of 2.

You then keep checking your water every day, topping it up as necessary
with ammonia to keep it at that level, until you get a reading of zero
for both ammonia and nitrite.

Is this what you have done?

You say it's been 3 weeks but on 24th March you said you hadnt added any ammonia because you didnt have a testing kit so I am not sure what you are doing.

Just noticed that this thread was started by Sally - how did her fishless cycle go, anyone know?

Diana wrote:

Can I just clarify what you are doing?

You should be adding enough ammonia to bring the test reading up to
4-5ppm. Is this what you are doing?

You then test the water every day, adding more ammonia to keep it at
that level.

When your nitrite shoots up, you then reduce the amount of ammonia you
are adding so that you maintain an ammonia level of 2.

You then keep checking your water every day, topping it up as necessary
with ammonia to keep it at that level, until you get a reading of zero
for both ammonia and nitrite.

Is this what you have done?

You say it's been 3 weeks but on 24th March you said you hadnt added any ammonia because you didnt have a testing kit so I am not sure what you are doing.

You and me both Diana!

I'm keeping going with the ammonia but the test kit I got for the nitrate and nitrite is v difficult to read. At the moment the ammonia level is 0.25 and that is with an Api test kit. The readings for nitrite are 0.5 and nitrate 20 and that's with an Api test kit. The ammonia test kit involves a test tube and 8 drops of this and 8 drops of that and is quite clear to read. The nitrite/nitrate test kit is little sticks with square pads on and I find them really difficult to read.

I was talking to the guy in the fish shop today and he said I should just get some zebra danios and do a cycle with fish. As the tank has been running for weeks and the plants he sold me will have done something to help. He said I can come in at any time and he would talk me through it but I feel such a numpty!

To say I am confused would be an understatement!

I'm happy to keep going with the ammonia but I'm really getting cheesed off as I'm not sure what I'm doing and my wee lad really, really wants fish!

Appreciate any help!